Jump to content


Photo

PolitiFact Sheet: 3 things to know about the 'gun show loophole'


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 johnnyhusker82

johnnyhusker82

    ZEN Master of REDOUT!

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 101450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Huskers, Reading, & Guns
  • Nebraska

Posted 25 February 2019 - 12:20 PM

How many of you frequent gun shows?

 

 

By Amy Sherman on Thursday, January 7th, 2016 at 4:10 p.m.

 

Supporters of gun rights say President Barack Obama and others are confusing the issue of gun selling by talking about a "gun show loophole." Some go so far as to say such a loophole doesn’t exist.

When Chris Wallace of Fox News Sunday asked Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush to explain what was wrong with Obama’s ideas, Bush had this to say:

 
tom-mostlytrue.png
 
 
tom-false.png
 
 
tom-mostlytrue.png
 
 
See related rulings

"Well, because you don't know the details of it, but the so-called gun show loophole -- which I think is what he’s talking about -- doesn't exist. People that want to occasionally sell guns ought to have the right to do so without being impaired by the federal government. If states want to create specific rules around that kind of behavior -- fine."

We found Bush’s specific comments on Fox News Sunday a little jumbled and hard to fact-check, though he mimics similar claims by House Speaker Paul Ryan and other pundits. So here we’ll lay out what you need to know about current gun laws and what people mean when they talk about a loophole.

Our findings show that there is, in fact, an exemption in the law. But the exemption pertains to who sells the guns rather than where they sell them.

1. Federally licensed gun sellers are required to run background checks. But not all sellers are required to be licensed. Some of those unlicensed sellers sell at gun shows.

Federal law requires that persons who are engaged in the business of dealing in firearms be licensed by the federal government. Obama’s goal with his new plan is to tighten the screws on who is included in that group.

Announced Jan. 5, Obama’s plan requires those in the business of dealing in firearms -- including sellers at stores, gun shows and on the Internet -- get a license. Once they’re licensed, they are required to conduct background checks on all buyers.

But private sellers without a federal license don’t have to meet the same requirement. Though this exception is often referred to as the "gun show loophole," it actually applies more broadly to unlicensed individuals, whether they are selling at a gun show or somewhere else. (Some states have implemented their own background check requirement beyond federal law.)

Bush’s argument centers on the fact that the loophole doesn’t single out gun shows.

A Bush spokesman pointed to a 2000 article by David Kopel, a policy analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute. (The spokesman also cited a brief from Politico that made a similar argument to Kopel’s.) Kopel wrote that for decades, dealers have been required to obtain a federal firearms license. But those who sell firearms from time to time -- such as to a relative -- aren’t required to obtain such a license.

"Existing gun laws apply just as much to gun shows as they do to any other place where guns are sold," he wrote. "If you walk along the aisles at any gun show, you will find that the overwhelming majority of guns offered for sale are from federally licensed dealers. Guns sold by private individuals (such as gun collectors getting rid of a gun or two over the weekend) are the distinct minority."

Kopel, a law professor at Denver University, told PolitiFact that his own research was based on gun shows in Colorado in the 1980s and 1990s.

2. It’s not clear how many sellers are licensed and how many are not. Some studies are out of date.

Nationwide, how many gun sellers are not required to hold a license is difficult to determine. Some of the research we found about the percentage of gun show vendors who are licensed was outdated or limited in scope.

A 1999 federal study by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms found that those with federal firearm licenses make up 50 to 75 percent of the vendors at gun shows. But that included vendors who sold guns or other paraphernalia and accessories, so it was difficult to tell how many sold only guns. ATF has not updated that study, a spokeswoman told PolitiFact. (A separate outdated study looked at what percentage of gun sales escape background checks, but that study had various shortcomings, according to PolitiFact Virginia.)

Professors at Northeastern and Harvard universities conducted a gun survey in 2015 that isn’t yet published. The national survey of 4,000 non-institutionalized adults found that 22 percent of the people who purchased guns -- at gun shows, stores or elsewhere -- underwent no background check, said Matthew Miller, professor of Health Sciences and Epidemiology at Northeastern University and co-director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.

When researchers excluded purchases between family and friends, that number dropped to 15 percent, which equates to approximately 5 million gun owners whose most recent purchase did not involve a background check.

3. Experts warn that the phrase "gun show loophole" is imprecise at best. But people do buy guns without having to undergo background checks.

Several experts said the phrase "gun show loophole" isn’t the most accurate way to describe the gap in the law.

"There is a huge loophole in federal law, but it isn't for gun shows," UCLA law professor Adam Winkler said. "What is called the gun-show loophole is misnamed. It should be the ‘private sale loophole’ or the ‘background check loophole.’ ... The reason people talk about gun shows is that they are easily accessible marketplaces for people who don't want to be subject to a background check to find non-licensed gun sellers."

Gabriel Chin, a professor at UC Davis School of Law, told PolitiFact that there is a loophole in the sense that it has not been clear how many firearms one has to sell before one is required to obtain a license.

"Remember, gun shows are mainly on weekends, so there is room for someone to claim ‘this is a hobby or part of my collection’ when it is also a substantial business," Chin said.

Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University, said the term "gun show loophole" is misleading if it implies that the law didn’t intend to exempt some sellers.

"The term ‘loophole’ suggests that it was a minor, unintended flaw in the design of the law, something inadvertently overlooked by lawmakers, when it was actually the very intentional result of a carefully worked-out political compromise between those who wanted background checks on all gun acquisitions and those who did not want any at all," he said.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jan/07/politifact-sheet-3-things-know-about-gun-show-loop/ 


Posted Image

What is your favorite color?

Go Big Red!

#2 johnnyhusker82

johnnyhusker82

    ZEN Master of REDOUT!

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 101450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Huskers, Reading, & Guns
  • Nebraska

Posted 25 February 2019 - 12:21 PM

21 Bizarre Gun Show Loophole Statistics

The Second Amendment is a strong political point in the United States and there are passionate people on both sides of the debate. How do you balance the right to protect yourself with a firearm with the need to have a safe society where people aren’t forced to flee with their family at a shopping mall because someone is firing indiscriminately?

Let’s be real: 40% of gun sales that occur at gun shows without background checks just doesn’t happen.

Gun Show Loophole

It was a statistic that was thrown out a couple years ago in the political wrangling of Washington and spread like wildfire for a long time, but there isn’t any research behind that claim. There are statistics that prove there is a gun show loophole going on, so it isn’t a myth, but it’s definitely not as bad as some of the claims that have been made.

  • Up to 75% of vendors at all gun shows in the United States are licensed dealers and are required to run background checks on all purchases.
  • Only 25% of tables at any given gun show are reserved to actually sell firearms.
  • 17 states require every gun transaction to have some form of background check completed with the exception of a family transfer.
  • Only 2% of criminal guns come from gun shows.

Although one side will say that there isn’t a loophole and the other side will say there is one, the truth seems to be somewhere in the middle. It is possible for an individual to buy a table at a gun show and sell guns as a private individual to someone who comes to the show without a background check. This is a currently legal process and someone defined as a dealer is a person who devotes, labor, attention, and time to the dealing of firearms as their regular basis of business to earn a livelihood. It does happen, but 4 out of every 10 gun sales aren’t actually undocumented.

Do Criminals Get Their Guns at Gun Shows?
  • Just 0.7% of criminals who have been convicted of a gun crime said that they got their gun from a gun show.
  • 40% of guns that are used in the commission of a crime are obtained by illegal means, such as theft.
  • 46% of those who do sell firearms without a background check are doing so without a business license, which is also a violation of the law.
  • Over the last 14 years, background checks have prevented 1.5 million people from purchasing a firearm that they were not qualified to own.
  • Out of the 40% number of guns obtained without background checks, 29% of them were from family transfers that do not require background checks in almost every community in the US.
  • In a recent survey, only 4% of people stated that they made their purchase of a firearm at a gun show.
  • 90% of people support having background checks for all gun sales.

The reality is that criminals who want a gun are going to find a way to get a gun. It doesn’t have to be at a gun show. It can be at a pawn shop. It can be by thrown a brick through the window of a store that sells firearms. It can happen by shoplifting at Walmart. The most effective way to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn’t own them is to either take all the guns away – which isn’t an option – or to make sure that appropriate records are submitted to background check systems so that felony convictions and mental health issues are appropriately documented.

What Do the Long Term Studies Have to Say?
  • According to one ATF study, 10,000 guns used in the commission of a crime were connected to the sale of a weapon at a gun show. That amounts to about 2% of total gun sales in the US.
  • 62% of vendors at gun shows according to a 2009 NYC study would be willing to sell a firearm to someone who was known to be legally prohibited from owning one.
  • 69% of NRA members support closing the background check loophole for good.
  • A 2008 bipartisan poll showed that 87% of Americans favored a requirement for background checks at gun shows.
  • In September 2013, there were about 67k firearms listed for sale online.
  • 29% of advertising by private sellers on a website for firearms sales were listed by high volume sellers with more than 5 ads in an 8 week period.
  • In 2010, more than 117k gun transfers were denied because of the Federal background check system.

There is no doubt that there are problems with the current gun show system. This is expanded by the regular use of the internet to purchase a firearm in a way that doesn’t require a background check. Even if 4% of gun sales are undocumented, however, and there are 10,000 guns used in the commission of crime every year from gun shows, that’s way too many. With a few controls in place, often described as a universal background check, this loophole can be closed rather rapidly. This seems like a pretty simple solution to a problem and it’s a solution that is backed by a majority of people.

What Must Unlicensed Dealers Do Under Law?
  • Licensed dealers must perform background checks. Unlicensed dealers do not.
  • Licensed dealers must report the theft of a gun. Unlicensed dealers do not.
  • Licensed dealers must make records available for law enforcement inspection. Unlicensed dealers do not.

It seems as if the playing field were leveled, the results may come closer to 0 in regards to gun sales at shows where background checks may not take place. It could also just be as simple as having gun show organizers require background checks in order to have a table to sell guns. Whatever the statistic happens to be, it makes sense to take some actions today to prevent future crime from occurring.

 

Facts-About-Gun-Violence.png


Posted Image

What is your favorite color?

Go Big Red!

#3 fdbrian

fdbrian

    (Jersey Retired)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17257 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:behind you
  • Interests:All things undead
  • Nebraska

Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:12 PM

It's well known we can reguate weapons and which ones we allow people to own, what we're really arguing about where to draw the line in the sand. 

 

If it's always safer for everyone to have weapons, then why is letting North Korea have nukes such a problem?



#4 johnnyhusker82

johnnyhusker82

    ZEN Master of REDOUT!

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 101450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Huskers, Reading, & Guns
  • Nebraska

Posted 27 February 2019 - 12:11 PM

Nukes aren't quite the same as an AR-15...


Posted Image

What is your favorite color?

Go Big Red!

#5 fdbrian

fdbrian

    (Jersey Retired)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17257 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:behind you
  • Interests:All things undead
  • Nebraska

Posted 27 February 2019 - 03:52 PM

Nukes aren't quite the same as an AR-15...

well the 2nd amendment says arms, nukes would qualify, hence we always called it an arms race.



#6 johnnyhusker82

johnnyhusker82

    ZEN Master of REDOUT!

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 101450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Huskers, Reading, & Guns
  • Nebraska

Posted 28 February 2019 - 12:31 PM

 

Nukes aren't quite the same as an AR-15...

well the 2nd amendment says arms, nukes would qualify, hence we always called it an arms race.

 

I've a large number of guns, but am missing a nuke...


Posted Image

What is your favorite color?

Go Big Red!

#7 fdbrian

fdbrian

    (Jersey Retired)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17257 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:behind you
  • Interests:All things undead
  • Nebraska

Posted 28 February 2019 - 02:10 PM

 

 

Nukes aren't quite the same as an AR-15...

well the 2nd amendment says arms, nukes would qualify, hence we always called it an arms race.

 

I've a large number of guns, but am missing a nuke...

 

yes I know, you probably don't have much in the way of full military weaponry either. If you did have a Nuke you could hold the world hostage for 1 million dollars.



#8 johnnyhusker82

johnnyhusker82

    ZEN Master of REDOUT!

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 101450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Huskers, Reading, & Guns
  • Nebraska

Posted 01 March 2019 - 11:39 AM

 

 

 

Nukes aren't quite the same as an AR-15...

well the 2nd amendment says arms, nukes would qualify, hence we always called it an arms race.

 

I've a large number of guns, but am missing a nuke...

 

yes I know, you probably don't have much in the way of full military weaponry either. If you did have a Nuke you could hold the world hostage for 1 million dollars.

 

pinkie finger to the corner of mouth while demanding it...


Posted Image

What is your favorite color?

Go Big Red!

#9 fdbrian

fdbrian

    (Jersey Retired)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17257 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:behind you
  • Interests:All things undead
  • Nebraska

Posted 04 March 2019 - 11:52 AM

 

 

 

 

Nukes aren't quite the same as an AR-15...

well the 2nd amendment says arms, nukes would qualify, hence we always called it an arms race.

 

I've a large number of guns, but am missing a nuke...

 

yes I know, you probably don't have much in the way of full military weaponry either. If you did have a Nuke you could hold the world hostage for 1 million dollars.

 

pinkie finger to the corner of mouth while demanding it...

 

of course






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users